How to Kno (Part 1)

2005 Sermon @ WBGC, Transcript:

Just a word of warning, if no ones ever heard me talk before, I think I think a wee bit differently. With a lot of preachers, its like you've got a train and its going along and if you interrupt you might derail their train of thought... I don't think linearly, I think sort of all over the place at once so before hand when I'm preparing a sermon its like a train crash of about seven different trains in the middle and so if you ever want to ask a question you won't disturb my train of thought, you will probably help me pick up something I've lost in the process...

and it might be a bit more scattered than usual cause I'm functioning on about 2 hours sleep.. we were late to bed and early up and Elijah got us up in the middle of the night as well.

What I'll do as well, I'll go through things a bit more quickly, keep it fairly short and we'll go to coffee so I don't confuse you too much, but I'll leave an opportunity after that to ask questions cause I've just got so much stuff and its all everywhere, but hopefully I'll generate some interest and you can come back to me [with questions].

So this sermon started off as something on creationism and evolution and how we understand / how we present our faith to people who are aware of the scientific interpretations of the world. But then it kind of, the sermon itself evolved a bit...

because in some ways that's way down the line. Before you get there to that particular train crash you have to start with how you get there, how you actually know.

I want to start off with this first, because this is the basis of where I start thinking about this. It is that

'Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. If any one imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know. But if one loves God, one is known by him.'

It's that part of the trouble we have as human beings is that we are small and we don't know. In all the conflicts between different interpretations of things or science vs faith, it boils down to what we don't know about it.... and what we decide we know... ultimately scripture teaches us that we start from a  place where we don't know, we are in need of Gods revelation.

Our certainty comes out of a different place, its not about knowing all the answers but about Gods love for us. I came across this quote from Thomas Aquinas

Scripture and truth....

"Two rules are to be observed, as Augustine teaches. The first is, to hold the truth of Scripture without wavering. The second is that since Holy Scripture can be explained in a multiplicity of senses, one should not adhere to a particular explanation, only in such measure as to be ready to abandon it if it be proved with certainty to be false; lest Holy Scripture be exposed to the ridicule of unbelievers, and obstacles be placed to their believing."
-St. Thomas Aquinas

This is basically the crux of what I want to emphasise that in approaching scripture and approaching what we [think we] know... is that we approach with an attitude of humility... that there are vast things that we don't know... and also that there are many other people with parts of the picture that we don't have that need to be joined together in the church. Part of the wisdom of God's church is that he didn't give anyone the full picture, so that we would actually need each other. He is much more interested in the relational outworking of his truth. Its not about fathoming all the mysteries because in the end if we do all that without love we are just clanging gongs. God has deliberately set it up so that, until we reach perfection, until we see him face to face, until we are perfected in love, we need each other and we don't have all the full picture. We only have bits and pieces so in approaching how we know, we need to start from the place of holding certain things loosely and holding on to relationship and holding on to other people in the church fundamentally... Gods truth is unwavering, its solid, but our apprehension of that is always going to be partial... we see through a glass as a reflection dimly, we don't see clearly. So in holding on to what we know we need to hold on to certain things lightly but in believing absolutely still in his revelation in his truth. This is emphasised in 1 Corinthians 13

'Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.'1 Cor 13:8-12

this next passage emphasises that God gave different bits to different people:

'He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe. It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.'Eph 4:10-13

That's still to come. There is some teaching [in the church] that "when the perfect came" meant [the point at which] scripture was formed but the perfect coming is about reaching that goal of "unity in faith and the knowledge of the son of God and becoming mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ". As a whole church when you look at that we are not there yet. The ultimate goal of what we know, or trying to figure out what we are certain in and knowing God better, the core of has to be about being built up into Christ. Its about a relational growing as well as our knowledge or our understanding growing. The goal is ultimately in how we know stuff is in relation to both the local church and also the wider church.

I just want to talk about different bases of knowing within the church, there's different emphasis in different churches, in the orthodox church there hasn't been very much change in theology there have very much kept a hold of the early fathers and what they said. The traditions are very important to be  handed on down and that's mentioned in scripture. Paul is talking about the scriptures. But also Paul talks about 'what I passed on to you', and the same word is traditions. This is separated out from traditions of men on one hand and what is actually passed on from Jesus and from the apostles. And in exploring what is revealed that's the emphasis in the orthodox church.

In the catholic church there is a lot more progression in theology and actually some things changed, like for instance certain doctrines came in like the infallibility of the pope or the assumption of Mary into heaven, that weren't believed by the first Christians. But the emphasis of how you know within the Catholic Church is on reason and explaining. There was a strong emphasis on natural theology, so you've got natural theology, that is what can be understood from just thinking and from creation, and also the authority of the church. Both those are emphasised in scripture as well, we are to use our reason to work things out. The church is given authority, we are given authority to bind things on earth or loose then on earth and God does something in heaven corresponding to that. It shouldn't be like one or the other, it has to be that these things are in connection, in union with each other.

When the protestant church was created there was a whole plethora of the breaking down and splitting of the church based on an individuals own interpretation of scripture. Its not that the fundamental basis was wrong, within scripture there is an openness for every believer to come and get something out of it. Part of the problem here with the splits is that one strand of what is partial knowledge is emphasised as absolute. Its made absolute. So in the orthodox church tradition is seen as defining the boundaries  of  all the faith, or within the catholic church what the pope says or within the protestant traditions its individual interpretations. The trouble is that the splits aren't caused by people differing, the splits are caused by people not valuing the other parts that they don't have that its the lack of love and the lack of humility that there are different parts, that we don't have the whole picture.

There is a vast resource of what the early church fathers taught that we are disconnected from. The whole revelation of God won't be made manifest until we see him face to face. but the parts we get through relationship in the body, that's where his fullest revelation now is. To hold onto that one thing and make it absolute is not the basis that God has set for certainty which is his love, is Jesus revelation of who he is....

....ok I lost my train of thought again...

Just a couple of examples of particular interpretations.. this is building up to how people look at creation which I'll talk about some other time, but this is an example of the description of Solomon’s beautiful bride from Song of Songs chapters 4 and 7. I found this literalists interpretation of what that would actually look like.

(quote) how beautiful you are my love....

That's an obvious example of when the literalists interpretation, individual interpretation of what you read is what it means totally breaks down. And in coming to Genesis 1 that same kind of thinking is  seen in certain portions of the church, because they've set up an absolute value of an individuals interpretation, its only scripture and its only my interpretation of scripture without reference to the historical church, the traditions or the authority of the local body and how it balances all those unknown areas with all the other views ... it makes it into a conflict when in reality there is no conflict it is just about stuff that we don't know and we won't know fully until we are face to face with God.

Here's a quote from Augustine.

Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he hold to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an unbeliever to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn.
Augustine

My feeling is that unfortunately a lot of the creationists tirade against science they are producing apparent counter arguments against things is in this vein, they have made up their mind and they ignore a whole range of [interpretive possibilities] ... and its not presenting the humility that we don't know but we are certain of Gods love and that's our basis for certainty and its gets in the way of communicating ultimately the gospel. One of the other things in interpreting the bible is that concepts and meanings of words change through time. For many thousands of years many people? believed the earth was flat for instance, 

(show slide)

and later on that was a complete map of the world in about 1400 where Africa connects onto Antarctica and there's no Australia and no Americas... so that that's what world meant in that time... 

and for us now its more like this

 

(show slide) and then only within the last 50 years we have been getting images of what earth looks like from space. So part of our trouble in interpreting scripture as well and trying to relate it to what science is saying is that the very concepts themselves as revealed to those people in those times, we can't project back our modern day understanding of those words and expect them to hold up because its just not accurate.

And on the other side you've got the problem of science being to study all this and to actually  miss the point, miss the wonder, to miss the revelation of purpose, that to have us here as such a mind-blowing thing... to study that and miss the message that the heavens are declaring is crazy.

I'll just finish off quickly... I want to finish with a couple of verses about where certainty does come from..

'This is what the LORD says: "Let not the wise man boast of his wisdom or the strong man boast of his strength or the rich man boast of his riches, but let him who boasts boast about this: that he understands and knows me, that I am the LORD, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth, for in these I delight," declares the LORD.'Jer 9:23-24

and one from 1 John

'Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.'1 John 4:7-8

I think I'll just finish there. I just want to emphasise that in presenting our faith and what we know and seeking for understanding with scripture or integrating that with any understanding, we need to approach it with humility that we don't know, we need to approach it in relationship because we've only got part and the rest of the church needs to contribute to how we know as well.

All of truth can't be contained in one way of seeing things like maths or science or music or art. To hold onto our own perspective in exclusion to others reduces the richness of what God gives us. And finally, that we can be certain about who God is and the revelation of who he is to us in the community through his love for us and his love for us being expressed in his body.

Let’s get some coffee and if anyone wants to come back [with questions] that would be cool.